Here is a Brain-dump about Yvain.
Oct. 23rd, 2008 07:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
highlyeccentricThis is too incoherent to go up on my proper blog yet. But I want to throw it out and see if it makes any sense. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
tarimanveri, particularly (er. Provided my drivel isn't the last straw for you on things Chretien-related, that is). I haven't read your paper yet, and don't intend to do so until I've got my head straight on what I'm actually talking about. I also haven't read anything secondary at all, except for titles to articles, so it is possible that what I'm thinking is up the wrong tree, or vastly unoriginal.
The set question I've got is "analyser la fonction des personnages féminins du Chevalier au Lion'. Which is an open-ended question if ever I saw one. And I have 4000 words in English, give or take, in which to answer it.
I wanted to talk particularly about the secondary female characters. Not Laudine, although she'll obviously come into it, maybe not even Lunette, but rather the random ruling Lady whose domain Yvain defends, misc. girl-who-was-going-to-marry-a-giant, the Disinherited Damsel, and the women in the silk-weaving sweatshop. (News at seven: Chretien de Troyes speaks out against sweatshop industries!)
Because what Yvain does, running around the countryside as the anonymous Chevalier au Lion, is make a career out of restoring social order. He's not just rescuing damsels in distress: he's defending ruling ladies, and aiding beleaguered fathers as well. Yvain and his lion run around restoring correct relationships between men and women- cf the lady and her belligerent neighbour; they restore correct relationships between men and men- cf the giant-harrassed bloke and his sons; and they restore correct relationships between women and women- cf his defence of Lunette. There's relationships between superiors and inferiors- cf the weaving damsels- too, but mostly, it's correct relationships between men and women which he goes about restoring.
Although Yvain is defending women, usually against men, as a group, these damsels aren't a passive lot. The girl-who-was-going-to-marry-the-giant is pretty characterless, but Lunette certainly is not (and Yvain is in part defending her against Laudine, as well as her male accusers). The weaving damsels are economically productive members of society, and they emphasise the abuse of their economic power. The first woman Yvain saves is definitely in command of her estate and she and her maid actively seek his assistance. For that matter, they make him an even trade (although he doesn't know it): they restore his wits, and he defends them against Count Alier. *Laudine* certainly isn't passive or disempowered; Lunette is in a subordinate position but far from powerless.
So what we have is a bunch of women with varying degrees of personal, political and economic power, and an assortment of men, monsters, and other women who are out to deprive them of their rights. For the Lady-threatened-by-Count Alier (dammit. why don't they have names?), her domain is under threat. The prospective bride of the giant is facing gang-rape by the giant's henchmen. Lunette has lost her position as maid and will lose her life. The weaving damsels have lost their freedom, their home and their economic freedom.
What none of them have is military power, and that Yvain supplies. He comes in, bashes things, makes sure that everyone's relationships are put in proper order, and buggers back off again.
Yvain himself is outside this web of relationships, as the Chevalier au Lion. He's in relationship with his lion (WTF? what is WITH the lion? also can I have a lion, please?), but no one else: he's run away from the homosocial world of Arthur's court, and his marriage is defunct.
Okay, now let's back up to the beginning of the poem. Why is it that it is important for Yvain to be running around restoring social order as the Chevalier au Lion? Because, as Yvain, his social relationships are NOT in balance. We open with the court sitting around, as per usual for an Arthurian romance: but this time, Arthur is absent, because he's been, ah, detained by Guinevere in the bedroom. Next thing we know, Guinevere sneaks up to the boys, and her arrival causes an outbreak of chest-thumping and bickering. Voila, a woman drawing a man- the CENTRAL man- away from the homosocial circle. Voila a woman entering the homosocial circle and destabilising the bonds between men.
Then we have little Yvain, who decides to bugger off, leave the corporate identity of Arthur's knights, and do something exciting on his own. We have the impression at this stage that he intends to return to the company of men, with his status newly enhanced by feats of individual prowess. However, he falls in love with Laudine and becomes her vassal. This is a nice happy romance right up until the point where Yvain has to go and defend the fountain against Arthur: am I right, he really shouldn't be fighting Kay, since Kay is Arthur's representative and Yvain is Arthur's knight too?
So there's the first crisis of relationships for Yvain, and he chooses Laudine, apparently without hesitation. It's resolved happily and they all go home to Laudine's castle for tea and biscuits. Gawain takes up with Lunette and Arthur's knights flirt like hell with everything in sight. So far, so good. Then comes the SECOND crisis, in which Gawain asks Yvain to go with him and with Arthur's court. Gawain, for his part, doesn't seem to give a second's thought to Lunette (and, to be fair, she doesn't seem to give a stuff about him), and Gawain puts up a case for why Yvain should come with him: he shouldn't go soft in the company with women, essentially. We're men, manly men,men in tights, and manly stuff is more important. Nevermind that Yvain is now Laudine's vassal and has a manly manly duty to protect her fountain. This time, Yvain choses homosocial loyalty over romantic loyalty.1
*gesticulates* Here's where my brain goes down the slashdrain, doubly so when Gawain 'fools' Yvain to staying away from home past Laudine's set date. I'm wondering how Chretien meant his audience to take that, if not striaght down the slashdrain? Anyway. We have an established tension between homoSOCIAL (yes. definitely social. right) relationships, and heterosexual relationships, in which each threatens the other. (There are also gynosocial relationships, which have thus far ESTABLISHED heterosexual relationships, and perhaps by extension threatened homosocial relationships.) Yvain is unable to resolve this little crisis, because although he has given Gawain priority for the time being, he still wants Laudine's love. And now he's lost it.
So, he does the only sensible thing, which is to strip naked and run into the forest and have a breakdown. Of COURSE. Er. I mean, having lost his heterosexual relationship, he gives up his identity and all relationships, homosocial AND heterosexual. He is now an outsider (*mutters*mustnotsayOthermustnotsayOther*muttermuttermutter*) to his former society, and as such, he is able to go about re-establishing the correct balance in relationships between men and women, men and men (a bit), and women and women. In so doing, he consistently avoids establishing any personal relationships EXCEPT for that which he already has with Lunette.
Hmm. Lion. I don't think there's any change in Yvain's actions when he finds the Lion. I'm treating the Count Alier incident as part of the same arc as the giant fight, the rescue of Lunette, and the weaving women. In this... I think the lion isn't ENABLING him as... rewarding? Acknowledging? Whatever it is that the lion stands for (my gut feeling says the Lion is Yvain's soul, in some way), I think it should be read as commentary on the previous scene as well as scenes to come.
Hey, is it in fact the natural order of the world that serpents eat lions? I THINK NOT. Lookit Yvain restoring order!
NOW, we come to the Disinherited Damsel. Yvain enters into a professional relationship with her, as the Chevalier au Lion. He is to represent her against her sister's champion. Here, Yvain (and Gawain, not that Yvain knows it) is supposed to be restoring the balance of relationships between women and women. He and Gawain are each in a professional relationship with their damsels. And they THROW THE WOMEN OVER in favour of their own homosocial bonds. As soon as Yvain resumes his own identity, he has personal bonds with men and women again, and he still can't reconcile the loyalties demanded by his various relationships.
Yvain then heads off to the fountain, intending to fight for Laudine's hand again. Does he assume she's married again, I wonder? Anyway. He intends to regain his romantic relationship through a homosocial, military exchange. Except that the person who meets him at the fountain is LUNETTE, and once again Yvain regains his heterosexual bond through the bonds between women. And Yvain's loyalties are not resolved: he lies about his absence; he has no answer for Laudine's charge that he dishonoured her. (And Gawain never goes back to Lunette!Bastard big sweetie.)
So. Much as I like talking about Yvain and Gawain, I'm supposed to be talking about the women. And their function. From this waffle, it looks like I WILL have to talk about Laudine, and about Gawain too (yay! Gawain). But it's a 4000 word essay, it's totally do-able. Women. Laudine represents- no, not represents, she IS Yvain's romantic bond. DUH. The other women, however, are the external representation of m/f, and occaisonally, f/f relationships gone wrong. Maybe I could say we should anticipate Yvain choosing Laudine over homosocial society, because he always backs the women he meets? But he DEFAULTS on the Disinherited Damsel, which I think shows us that he can never resolve these crises unless he steps out of society altogether.
~
1. Except it's NOT just romantic loyalty. Is heterosocial a word? Yes, I know homosocial and homosexual aren't from the same root. But I can't think of a root which means 'men and women' which I could apply to '-social', see? Gynosocial, yes. Heterosocial has the right implications, but if it's not already a word people will think I mean "opposite-of-homo"social, when I do not.
Anyone who can wade through that ~1000 word meander through my thought process can win the Internets :D.
tarimanveri, particularly (er. Provided my drivel isn't the last straw for you on things Chretien-related, that is). I haven't read your paper yet, and don't intend to do so until I've got my head straight on what I'm actually talking about. I also haven't read anything secondary at all, except for titles to articles, so it is possible that what I'm thinking is up the wrong tree, or vastly unoriginal.The set question I've got is "analyser la fonction des personnages féminins du Chevalier au Lion'. Which is an open-ended question if ever I saw one. And I have 4000 words in English, give or take, in which to answer it.
I wanted to talk particularly about the secondary female characters. Not Laudine, although she'll obviously come into it, maybe not even Lunette, but rather the random ruling Lady whose domain Yvain defends, misc. girl-who-was-going-to-marry-a-giant, the Disinherited Damsel, and the women in the silk-weaving sweatshop. (News at seven: Chretien de Troyes speaks out against sweatshop industries!)
Because what Yvain does, running around the countryside as the anonymous Chevalier au Lion, is make a career out of restoring social order. He's not just rescuing damsels in distress: he's defending ruling ladies, and aiding beleaguered fathers as well. Yvain and his lion run around restoring correct relationships between men and women- cf the lady and her belligerent neighbour; they restore correct relationships between men and men- cf the giant-harrassed bloke and his sons; and they restore correct relationships between women and women- cf his defence of Lunette. There's relationships between superiors and inferiors- cf the weaving damsels- too, but mostly, it's correct relationships between men and women which he goes about restoring.
Although Yvain is defending women, usually against men, as a group, these damsels aren't a passive lot. The girl-who-was-going-to-marry-the-giant is pretty characterless, but Lunette certainly is not (and Yvain is in part defending her against Laudine, as well as her male accusers). The weaving damsels are economically productive members of society, and they emphasise the abuse of their economic power. The first woman Yvain saves is definitely in command of her estate and she and her maid actively seek his assistance. For that matter, they make him an even trade (although he doesn't know it): they restore his wits, and he defends them against Count Alier. *Laudine* certainly isn't passive or disempowered; Lunette is in a subordinate position but far from powerless.
So what we have is a bunch of women with varying degrees of personal, political and economic power, and an assortment of men, monsters, and other women who are out to deprive them of their rights. For the Lady-threatened-by-Count Alier (dammit. why don't they have names?), her domain is under threat. The prospective bride of the giant is facing gang-rape by the giant's henchmen. Lunette has lost her position as maid and will lose her life. The weaving damsels have lost their freedom, their home and their economic freedom.
What none of them have is military power, and that Yvain supplies. He comes in, bashes things, makes sure that everyone's relationships are put in proper order, and buggers back off again.
Yvain himself is outside this web of relationships, as the Chevalier au Lion. He's in relationship with his lion (WTF? what is WITH the lion? also can I have a lion, please?), but no one else: he's run away from the homosocial world of Arthur's court, and his marriage is defunct.
Okay, now let's back up to the beginning of the poem. Why is it that it is important for Yvain to be running around restoring social order as the Chevalier au Lion? Because, as Yvain, his social relationships are NOT in balance. We open with the court sitting around, as per usual for an Arthurian romance: but this time, Arthur is absent, because he's been, ah, detained by Guinevere in the bedroom. Next thing we know, Guinevere sneaks up to the boys, and her arrival causes an outbreak of chest-thumping and bickering. Voila, a woman drawing a man- the CENTRAL man- away from the homosocial circle. Voila a woman entering the homosocial circle and destabilising the bonds between men.
Then we have little Yvain, who decides to bugger off, leave the corporate identity of Arthur's knights, and do something exciting on his own. We have the impression at this stage that he intends to return to the company of men, with his status newly enhanced by feats of individual prowess. However, he falls in love with Laudine and becomes her vassal. This is a nice happy romance right up until the point where Yvain has to go and defend the fountain against Arthur: am I right, he really shouldn't be fighting Kay, since Kay is Arthur's representative and Yvain is Arthur's knight too?
So there's the first crisis of relationships for Yvain, and he chooses Laudine, apparently without hesitation. It's resolved happily and they all go home to Laudine's castle for tea and biscuits. Gawain takes up with Lunette and Arthur's knights flirt like hell with everything in sight. So far, so good. Then comes the SECOND crisis, in which Gawain asks Yvain to go with him and with Arthur's court. Gawain, for his part, doesn't seem to give a second's thought to Lunette (and, to be fair, she doesn't seem to give a stuff about him), and Gawain puts up a case for why Yvain should come with him: he shouldn't go soft in the company with women, essentially. We're men, manly men,
*gesticulates* Here's where my brain goes down the slashdrain, doubly so when Gawain 'fools' Yvain to staying away from home past Laudine's set date. I'm wondering how Chretien meant his audience to take that, if not striaght down the slashdrain? Anyway. We have an established tension between homoSOCIAL (yes. definitely social. right) relationships, and heterosexual relationships, in which each threatens the other. (There are also gynosocial relationships, which have thus far ESTABLISHED heterosexual relationships, and perhaps by extension threatened homosocial relationships.) Yvain is unable to resolve this little crisis, because although he has given Gawain priority for the time being, he still wants Laudine's love. And now he's lost it.
So, he does the only sensible thing, which is to strip naked and run into the forest and have a breakdown. Of COURSE. Er. I mean, having lost his heterosexual relationship, he gives up his identity and all relationships, homosocial AND heterosexual. He is now an outsider (*mutters*mustnotsayOthermustnotsayOther*muttermuttermutter*) to his former society, and as such, he is able to go about re-establishing the correct balance in relationships between men and women, men and men (a bit), and women and women. In so doing, he consistently avoids establishing any personal relationships EXCEPT for that which he already has with Lunette.
Hmm. Lion. I don't think there's any change in Yvain's actions when he finds the Lion. I'm treating the Count Alier incident as part of the same arc as the giant fight, the rescue of Lunette, and the weaving women. In this... I think the lion isn't ENABLING him as... rewarding? Acknowledging? Whatever it is that the lion stands for (my gut feeling says the Lion is Yvain's soul, in some way), I think it should be read as commentary on the previous scene as well as scenes to come.
Hey, is it in fact the natural order of the world that serpents eat lions? I THINK NOT. Lookit Yvain restoring order!
NOW, we come to the Disinherited Damsel. Yvain enters into a professional relationship with her, as the Chevalier au Lion. He is to represent her against her sister's champion. Here, Yvain (and Gawain, not that Yvain knows it) is supposed to be restoring the balance of relationships between women and women. He and Gawain are each in a professional relationship with their damsels. And they THROW THE WOMEN OVER in favour of their own homosocial bonds. As soon as Yvain resumes his own identity, he has personal bonds with men and women again, and he still can't reconcile the loyalties demanded by his various relationships.
Yvain then heads off to the fountain, intending to fight for Laudine's hand again. Does he assume she's married again, I wonder? Anyway. He intends to regain his romantic relationship through a homosocial, military exchange. Except that the person who meets him at the fountain is LUNETTE, and once again Yvain regains his heterosexual bond through the bonds between women. And Yvain's loyalties are not resolved: he lies about his absence; he has no answer for Laudine's charge that he dishonoured her. (And Gawain never goes back to Lunette!
So. Much as I like talking about Yvain and Gawain, I'm supposed to be talking about the women. And their function. From this waffle, it looks like I WILL have to talk about Laudine, and about Gawain too (yay! Gawain). But it's a 4000 word essay, it's totally do-able. Women. Laudine represents- no, not represents, she IS Yvain's romantic bond. DUH. The other women, however, are the external representation of m/f, and occaisonally, f/f relationships gone wrong. Maybe I could say we should anticipate Yvain choosing Laudine over homosocial society, because he always backs the women he meets? But he DEFAULTS on the Disinherited Damsel, which I think shows us that he can never resolve these crises unless he steps out of society altogether.
~
1. Except it's NOT just romantic loyalty. Is heterosocial a word? Yes, I know homosocial and homosexual aren't from the same root. But I can't think of a root which means 'men and women' which I could apply to '-social', see? Gynosocial, yes. Heterosocial has the right implications, but if it's not already a word people will think I mean "opposite-of-homo"social, when I do not.
Anyone who can wade through that ~1000 word meander through my thought process can win the Internets :D.
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no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:04 pm (UTC)If all these secondary women are lying around being in distress so that Yvain can restore correct social order, what does this do for him? How does his madness let him do this- is it just the shedding of his former identity and getting outside the system that lets him see how whack it is? Are these mini-tasks with all these various ladyfolk kind of training him for his ultimate showdown with Lunette? That was how I always saw it, though it is rather complicated by the fact that he ends up lying to her anyway.
I don't think these are very helpful thoughts. It's just kind of what you made me think about.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:12 pm (UTC)I *did* see your puppet show, it was lovely :D Also my teacher knows your teacher. (And, er, disagrees with her about performative whatsit. But she made reference to your class, in my class. And I was like DUDE I KNOW ABOUT THAT.)
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:11 pm (UTC)I'll have deeper thoughts on a day that I'm not running around in panicked circles trying to get something, anything, emailed to my diss committee before the sun sets, but on a casual read everything looks good.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 01:13 pm (UTC)GLEE.
For the gift of the word 'heterosocial', you are exempted from deep thoughts ;). Good luck with the dissertating!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 02:30 pm (UTC)BUT I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT I HAVEN'T READ THE STORY. *goes to hide under a rock now and work on her paper about the middle east*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 02:34 pm (UTC)Yvain is set up with Laudine by Lunette, who I thought might have had a thing for Yvain, but turned out to have a bit of a thing for GAWAIN. Or maybe both. Anyway. Lunette/Laudine is INTERESTING. Lunette is the lower status of the two, but has all the control. *considers*
I think where this is actually going is slashfic. But it would be nice to have a Theory as well.
Incidentally, In Parentheses (http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/) have a half-decent Eng. translation of the Chevalier au Lion available in pdf. Along with many other gems of medieval literature, if you happen to be bored :).
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 02:53 pm (UTC)I actually have a copy of miscellaneous de Troyes called "Arthurian Romances" translated by W. Wistar Comfort, published apparently in 1914 or thereabouts. The Chevalier au Lion is in there, along with the Knight of the Cart (hense my deep abiding surity that Gawain/Lancelot was on de Troyes mind)
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 03:02 pm (UTC)The idea is supposed to be that Lady B becomes such an exchange, which I think is looking at it from the wrong angle- if, instead of reading SGGK from the epilogue backwards, you read it and put aside your prior knowledge, it becomes apparent that Lady B is *forcing* a homosexual exchange with herself at one corner of the triangle.
ANYWAY. Yes, I think that's what's going on with Laudine, Lunette and Yvain. On the one hand, possibly Lunette fancies Yvain and so sets him up with Laudine. But why wouldn't she woo him herself- she woos Gawain, and he's of higher status than Yvain.
Which leaves me with: Lunette has a very vested interest in Laudine's sexual relationships. VERY vested. And Laudine listens to her.
Comfort's is the translation on In Parentheses. They also have Erec et Enide, which Comfort didn't do, and LOTS of fun medieval texts :D.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 03:09 pm (UTC)Actually, I have Erec et Enide in my little blue book (the cover is blue cloth and it's about the size of a paperback, so I always call it my Little Blue Arthurian Book), but I found it boring at the time I tried to read it because it Didn't Have Enough Gawain.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 03:22 pm (UTC)...which about sums up what I studied in high school, lol.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-24 01:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-24 01:50 am (UTC)I was home schooled, so basically my last few years I studied math, English literature, Christian theological history, medieval English history, Latin, Russian, Soviet-era Russian poetry, music, and Thomas Jefferson. My mom kind of let me go, I really basically finished early and my last two years were fiddling around reading stuff I thought sounded interesting. A great way to learn, maybe not the best thing for a budding education.
Then again it's turned out okay, college thus far has been easy academically, in terms of understanding my material and so on. It's just the sticky issues of getting it all done on time...
no subject
Date: 2008-10-24 02:06 am (UTC)Huh. Your education sounds pretty awesome, really. But then, I basically did whatever I wanted at school too: I was the prototype timetable; I got my religious studies teacher kicked out and taught myself, with the head of school to mark my essays... I was a bit of a brat, actually!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-23 04:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-24 01:00 am (UTC)