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highlyeccentricso we wrapped up bible study today, although by the sounds of it we might be going on to talk about heaven/hell stuff, if not out of revelation then from somewhere else, next year...
we attacked Rev 21:5-8 this time... the hell & damnation stuff. anyway, lauren wanted to get us thinking about models of 'redemptive justice'. Her idea is that in our cultural understanding, justice must be retributive- you send to jail, fine, smack, ground, ect. We then assume our idea of justice is the same as God's idea.
'Redemptive justice', on the other hand, is apparently a concept inherent in various african and nth. american indigenous cultures. The example Lauren pulled out is one of Pete Hobson's favourite stories, and i heard Julian Hamilton and Purity Malinga both use it at NCYC 03. Lauren put a bit of the gore into it that they'd left out, though.
In '96, after the end of the Apartheid era in South Africa, there was formed a Reconcillaition Committee, or something with a name like that. An amnesty was granted to any purpetrator of crimes against humanity under the Apartheid regime; they would not be punished under the law if they were willing to front up to a court consiting of the victim and the victim's comminitees, and their own peers, to confess and to volunteer to make atonement in however the victim requested.
A white police officer had killed and tortured a woman's husband and son, mutilating their genitals, killing them, and then burning their bodies, while she watched. He then removed the ashes so that she couldn't bury them. He confessed to this in court before her and her extended family.
The woman got up, and she asked him for three things.
Firstly, she asked to know where the remains were buried, that she might give them a proper funeral.
Secondly, she pointed out that she was alone in the world. The white police officer, she said, was to become her family. He would visit her once a month, and fill part of the hole in her life.
Thirdly, she said to him: 'i want you to know that you are forgiven. not because i want to forgive you, but because of my faith in Christ. And i want to come over there and give you a hug right now.'
He fainted there on the courtroom floor. He still visits the woman today, and is an accepted, loved and integral part of her extended family community.
few people have that kind of courage... but it seems to me that God probably does.
and in other news:
madrigal society performance last night was very preeetty... will and kate tell me the french horn was off, but hey, i don't have any sense of pitch.
just the night i convince will that it's safe to come to college... there are thirty naked men pelting around campus.
UCATSA dinner was good again. Will was rather impressed with John, I think, and i think John quite liked Will.
Listening to John talk about his PHD and trying to convert it to a publishable book, i leant over to emma and said: 'that man is too intelligent for his own good!'
her response: 'yeah, and he says the same about you.' now i want to know what i did to seem so smart.
will and i are all good, finally. have come to the mutual agreement that neither of us needs the other but we kinda like having each other around. so we are agreed, and this is good.
wandering campus at twelve thirty in the morning is fun :DDDD must find people to do this with more frequently. took some nice photos of the quad in the dark, which i may put up when i've edited them and played with them a bit.
now off to buy a folder so that i can sort my bible study notes out and organised them by book and chapter, make a decent reference guide out of them. The Bible According To John Hirt.
we attacked Rev 21:5-8 this time... the hell & damnation stuff. anyway, lauren wanted to get us thinking about models of 'redemptive justice'. Her idea is that in our cultural understanding, justice must be retributive- you send to jail, fine, smack, ground, ect. We then assume our idea of justice is the same as God's idea.
'Redemptive justice', on the other hand, is apparently a concept inherent in various african and nth. american indigenous cultures. The example Lauren pulled out is one of Pete Hobson's favourite stories, and i heard Julian Hamilton and Purity Malinga both use it at NCYC 03. Lauren put a bit of the gore into it that they'd left out, though.
In '96, after the end of the Apartheid era in South Africa, there was formed a Reconcillaition Committee, or something with a name like that. An amnesty was granted to any purpetrator of crimes against humanity under the Apartheid regime; they would not be punished under the law if they were willing to front up to a court consiting of the victim and the victim's comminitees, and their own peers, to confess and to volunteer to make atonement in however the victim requested.
A white police officer had killed and tortured a woman's husband and son, mutilating their genitals, killing them, and then burning their bodies, while she watched. He then removed the ashes so that she couldn't bury them. He confessed to this in court before her and her extended family.
The woman got up, and she asked him for three things.
Firstly, she asked to know where the remains were buried, that she might give them a proper funeral.
Secondly, she pointed out that she was alone in the world. The white police officer, she said, was to become her family. He would visit her once a month, and fill part of the hole in her life.
Thirdly, she said to him: 'i want you to know that you are forgiven. not because i want to forgive you, but because of my faith in Christ. And i want to come over there and give you a hug right now.'
He fainted there on the courtroom floor. He still visits the woman today, and is an accepted, loved and integral part of her extended family community.
few people have that kind of courage... but it seems to me that God probably does.
and in other news:
madrigal society performance last night was very preeetty... will and kate tell me the french horn was off, but hey, i don't have any sense of pitch.
just the night i convince will that it's safe to come to college... there are thirty naked men pelting around campus.
UCATSA dinner was good again. Will was rather impressed with John, I think, and i think John quite liked Will.
Listening to John talk about his PHD and trying to convert it to a publishable book, i leant over to emma and said: 'that man is too intelligent for his own good!'
her response: 'yeah, and he says the same about you.' now i want to know what i did to seem so smart.
will and i are all good, finally. have come to the mutual agreement that neither of us needs the other but we kinda like having each other around. so we are agreed, and this is good.
wandering campus at twelve thirty in the morning is fun :DDDD must find people to do this with more frequently. took some nice photos of the quad in the dark, which i may put up when i've edited them and played with them a bit.
now off to buy a folder so that i can sort my bible study notes out and organised them by book and chapter, make a decent reference guide out of them. The Bible According To John Hirt.
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no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 08:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 09:10 am (UTC)it presupposes penitence, of course, but obviously he was because he was willing to front up for the process.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 10:22 am (UTC)There's got to be two sides of the coin. This form of justice doesn't take into account people like, say, me, who laughs at the concept of divine justice. The concept of reduction in sentence for remorse is a well established facet of the legal system, but pushing either mercy or punishment to the extreme is foolish.
It makes a nice parable about how mushy God makes you inside, though. I doubt the veracity even as I question the message - if I were to kill your family, would you forgive me? Even if you did is this the right thing to do? Morally? Is it really?
no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 10:49 am (UTC)i don't think such a system could possibly function in our culture without extreme circumstances causing a paradigm shift, as happened in south africa. because we are raised to believe that if you are not given a 'punishment' for something then you've got away with it, then it won't function. most people would treat it as a soft option, an easy way out.
the current penal system aint perfect either, we still get repeat offenders.
i wasn't looking at this as a model for justice to be widely applied across our society, although there's certainly something in it which perhaps is worth investigating. the interesting theological point which won't interest you in the least is to do with the concept of judgement and 'hell'.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 10:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-27 10:58 am (UTC)