On the Lord's Prayer

[highlyeccentric]

Our Father who art in Heaven,
hallowed by thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on Earth as in Heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our tresspasses
as we forgive those who tresspass against us.
Lead us not into temptation,
and deliver us from evil.
(Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory,
now and forever)*
Amen.

There, isn't it pretty? I have, in my mother's opinion, an irrational attatchment to the old-style Lord's Prayer. And to "Be thou my Vision" (bollocks to people who sing "You be my Vision", i say). It's a great puzzle to Mum, who maintains that she never taught it to me. Which, indeed, is true- she taught me the theologically sound version,
Our Father in Heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your Kingdom come,
your will be done,
on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins
as we forvie those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil,
for the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory are yours,
now and forever,
Amen

I assume I picked the thees and thous up from reading old books, or something. Until I started with Anglo-Saxon, I didn't have any particular reason for preffering the old version. I just liked it better. Sounds pretty, has a nice sense of tradition to it.

I just trawled through my backlog to try to find an entry where I'd written up my discoveries about second-person pronouns. However, such an entry is unlocatable. So, in case anyone else out there was incredibly confused by the pronouns in Shakespeare, English pronouns should work something like French, with a singular and a plural/polite.

Singular: nominative** Thou accusative*** Thee Genitive**** thy/ thine
Plural/Polite: nominative You accusative Ye Genitive your
Isn't that exciting?

It plays into status differentiation, though. One calls ones equals or inferiors thee and one's superiors you. The Quakers had to bugger off to America for persistently addressing politicians as thee in England.

Now think about the Lord's prayer again. Someone, somewhere- or many ones, everywhere- back in the dim dark past when it became customary to say the prayer in English, thought it was important enough that we have a close, affectionate, perhaps even an "equal" relationship with God, that they used the personal thou form.****** When I make these old words, out of time with the rest of my congregation, it's not that i feel God's so special he deserves better pronouns. God's too big for pronouns. Rather, I say them and I participate in a long tradition of personal, intimate thou-ing relationship with God. I enter into relationship, through the words, not only with the God to whom they are addressed, but with a community of faith which transcends time, space, and common grammar.
_________________________

*Parts in brackets seem to be a random Protestant addition.
** used for the actor in a sentence. Ie, I love thee; thou lovest me
*** used for the object of a verb. we naturally make that distinction with I/me and we/us
**** possessive
****** this is probably based on something similar in the Latin version, mind. not an english innovation, but a conservation of said important factor.

Comments

[daiskmeliadorn.livejournal.com]

*waves*

*sigh*

i am really not getting any work done right now. so thought i'd write on your blog instead. :) of course i should do something like get some exercise, which might help me concentrate, but ooooh no i'm not gonna do that!!

plus i need to remind you to reply to my 'being single' post!

so with all this thee and thou business, i always wondered whether french people said "tu" or "vous" in the lord's prayer. i can't remember what it says in the french bible i've got but i have heard people say it both ways in practice, which is interesting. it seems almost shocking to use "tu" for God actually, especially in France where they can be so uptight about that kind of thing (i.e. it can be offensive to be called "tu", as if you're a kid or something, non?)

The Lord's Prayer...

[tess-mier.livejournal.com]

Of course, being catholic I had to learn the thee and thou one... I like it better, but I think that it maybe because you can say it with a sense of ceremony and leave all the rational thinking behind.
I don't like church, but I like the old prayers.
Its comforting to say them without thinking, like a mantra or a chant. Its great. You get the comfort, they lack the meaning. haha!
Oh i'm so going to hell!!! (stupid catholic guilt)

Yes, I know it's a distinction without difference, I just thought to point it out.

[packbat.livejournal.com]

Not "Give us this day our daily bread"?

(I also seem to have acquired a "For" on "[t]hine is the kingdom", etc.)

Re: Yes, I know it's a distinction without difference, I just thought to point it out.

[highlyeccentric.livejournal.com]

as I said, I haven't been taught the old version properly, I've sort of put it together from bits and pieces I've read. You are probably quite right...

[packbat.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely don't go by my word - I've not been taught any of this.

(A-ha! "For thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory/For ever and ever,/Amen." I thought "now and forever" wasn't what I remembered!)

(Wait, what are we doing? Wikipedia was born to answer this kind of question! We seem to be remembering the 1662 or 1928 BCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Prayer) - Anglican Book of Common Prayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer) - translation, where your church uses the 1988 ELLC - ecumenical English Language Liturgical Consultation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Language_Liturgical_Consultation) - translation.)