(no subject)

[highlyeccentric]

I recieved this in a forwarded email last night. It makes me angry. I suppose there's nothing you can do, though...

Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.
When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"
I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
The Imam was speechless.
I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
I think everyone should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.

gah. stuff like this makes me feel both angry at people's stupidity and angry because nothing i can do will fix it...

Comments

[mrlachatte.livejournal.com]

Were you angry about the way Islam was portrayed, or something else?

[highlyeccentric.livejournal.com]

both the portrayal, the medium of portrayal, the fact that it's pandering to christian supremism, and the fact that people are stupid enough to believe it and circulate it with opening comments saying things like 'i found this really interesting... think about it'. PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS SHIT!!!

[lepsdavid.livejournal.com]

Right, this is the reason why shotguns were invented! If only the people who see common sense in these matters would use them on the people who propagate this stuff.

[highlyeccentric.livejournal.com]

i seriously thought of hitting 'reply all' and blasting away... but i don't have enough facts figures or familiarity with Islam to do it any more reliably than the estimable Mr Mathes does... and i suspect i'd offend shaye no end.

[lepsdavid.livejournal.com]

How benevolent of you

[rayneshadow.livejournal.com]

I hate forwards like this, and I also think the manner of storytelling is likely less than accurate - "like a boy with his hand caught in the cookie jar" what the heck?

However... while I have nothing against Islamic people specifically and like the ones I know - most representations we see of the religion as a whole is NOT positive at all - for example violent riots and killings over offenses like a comic, or what the Pope said. It is not normal for Judaism, Hinduism, Daoism, Christianity, etc to react like that when they are insulted or offended.

I think many people are wanting to accept everyone and are quick to say it is a religion of peace, but thousands are killed in its name every day and many of its religious laws are violent.
Ex: Muslim men are allowed to beat their wives (http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.353798383&par=) - "Women, he axplained, "are masochistic and sometimes they have a crisis and need light physical punishment to get back to normal."
It's ok to Kill Gays - British Imam (http://www.gcn.ie/content/templates/newsupdate.aspx?articleid=1409&zoneid=4)

Yes, Christians killed in the name of Christ during the crusades, and there will always be the 'nazi-ish' people who take what they believe a religion is about to the extreme. But before saying Islam is a religion of peace, I'd read the Koran.
I make no claims about Islam as defined by the Koran. I have not read it, but do plan on reading it very soon. However if the Koran does NOT support violence, then the large part of it's followers are in need of some serious studying.
We see little mercy demonstrated toward others and no tolerance of other religions.
Group of Buddhist Monks Ripped by Muslim Shrapnel Bomb (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/22/asia/AS_GEN_Thailand_Southern_Violence.php)
Christians tortured to death (http://www.persecution.org/suffering/newsdetail.php?newscode=3771)

So I guess, while I think the forward is stupid, and certainly less than accurate - I find little reason to be too defensive of the Muslim religion.

[highlyeccentric.livejournal.com]

Most of the Koran is non-violent. There are a few passages which often get picked out by western and islamic readers alike, without considering the contexts. Say, for example, on the one hand, in a surah revealed early in the period at Medina, God tells Mohammed and his followers to live peacefully with 'People of the Book' (christians and jews) since they're all going to heaven together. And this they did, until the Jewish community of Medina betrayed them to their enemies. Then God and Mohammed were righteously incensed, and there's an incitement to destroy the whole community. Which isn't very nice, but then they were a warrior culture under military threat.
Then there's the fact that the Koran isn't arranged chronologically- it's arranged from largest surah to smallest, roughly. Mohammed thought it looked nicer that way. Makes it hard to read without a vast background knowledge, since so much of it is God's personal dealings with Mohammed, his family and community. If you don't know what they asked, it's hard to understand his replies.
The Koran is also highly allegorical in a lot of places (reminds me of the Book of Revelations at times).
The traditions of islamic law have never taken the Koran in isolation- there is the Sunna or hadith, the traditions of the Prophet, which are there to guide your interpretations, since Mohammed had the perfect understanding of his revelations. My favourite one is the one where a kitten fell asleep on his cloak, and he cut the cloak up so as not to disturb the kitten when he moved. But after that I think the hadith on Jihad should be more widely publicised- in both western and islamic circles.

*paraphrased by me*
Mohammed riding home with his army after facing the army of Mecca (Mecca was held by a hostile tribal oligarchy at the time, and they were intent on wiping out the new islamic community at Medina). His followers are all hyped up because they've struck a great blow in the Jihad against the infidels. And he stops them and says nope, you've got it wrong. the greater Jihad lies before us, in our homes and our community. what we did today, that's only a piddling little Jihad compared to the struggle we face against evil in our everyday lives.

~

anyway, i think you're right, islam is going through one of those crisis periods as far as violence and the treatment of women go. but that doesn't mean you should write out the whole religion... or try to change it from the outside. Heavy-handed attempts to enforce change from outside only increase the feeling of being a righteous minority embattled against the great evils of the decadent West. real and lasting change can only come from within... and knowing switched on, faithful Muslims, i have every confidence that it will come from such as them in time.